hey dude decent track here.
I don't know how I'm going to be able to follow up a review from KB but I'd agree what he says.
Solid ideas here, decent melodies, good flow, but the structure itself feels a bit unimaginative and generic (although, I don't how you could improve this much while still retaining the danceyish feel)
Like KB said, the sounds feel a bit dated, I *believe* they are all pretty much raw sytrus presets (but thanks for not using the Eurotrance preset lol, and I did like the leads and pads, theyre just overused)- definetly the drums could use some work, work on layering different samples together, mess with compression on EQ until you can get a nice original sound. Surf the web for different types of samples, I think I had a link to a general samplekit posted on my third blog. As for the synths, start making your own from scratch, just basic ones from the start with 3xosc, and mess with tweaking the sytrus sounds.
as for the mixing- not my area of expertise but for a song like this it doesnt feel like it has enough reverb, to really spark that danceing inside a club type of feel. Maybe put some on the lead to make it stick out a bit more. this could also use a spruce of EQing to really carve out the sounds more to maximize the clarity and make the mix less flat, but I dont have any specific tips on how to do so.
as far as the composition goes, the only thing I would do differently is add more to the part after the second melody theme comes in, keep the pads in the background, maybe make the drums sound a bit more intense by laying the clap with a snare and maybe switching the closed hi hats with an open every now and then.
Lastly missing effects? i'd say include some more drastic automations perhaps- somewhat like in the intro mess with automating the filter frequencies, resonance, and EQ bands, just experiment around with them see how different levels mesh with each other.
i'll end with some links
www.basicsofedm.newgrounds.com <-- good guide on starting to make EDM type of music
www.karco.newgrounds.com <-- on one of his blog posts he's got an excellent tutorial for this type of music
www.blackhole12.com <-- guide on how to work sytrus, a must read
Good job man, keep the music coming. keep these melodies saved and once you get more experience you'll be able to make this into a NG classic haha. i know some of this advice was pretty vague but if you have specific questions feel free to ask.
Uber cool Review....LOL.
Seriously, thanks... I appreciate the detailed and lengthy review.
I know what youn mean about the structure, I forgot to include in my description that this isn't the completed structure but rather the completed melody structure, if that makes any sense?
The sytrus isn't preset and has about 4 effects on them, however... not enough change in my opinion... its a complicated story but the short of it, is that they should have been changed before I uploaded the song. So i'm completely agree with you on that. - Though I admit I'm a noob in FL and rely too heavily on messing with sytrus and have 0 experience in 3xosc... and will be starting to learn about that wonderful thing.
Adding even more reverb on the main synth was genius... why didn't i think of that. Thanks.
Thanks for the tips, thanks for the links.
I will absolutely keep making music. By the time I have actually figured how to make instruments sound good I think I'll have a library of my own music to remake.
lol, I read the kind review you left KaiserSzandor. Try to give some advice in addition to bashing/flaunting your superior knowledge to the average newgrounder that you take everyone as. Maybe then you would actually EARN your high horse that your prize yourself riding on so often, for now you're still just an elitiist, pedantic, condescending fuck ;)
as for the track itself, very damn interesting. Some awesome ideas in here- jazz and DnB has got to be one of the most unique blend of styles IMO.
Really like the drum beat going on, still has a DnB drum beat feel while adding the odd time signature complexity, while not feeling too awkward. Like what you did with the ride-crash cymbal throughout, how the rhythm is similar to the ghost notes you would hear in an amen break, and how those hi hat/snare sounding hybrid thingies rhythm were sequenced, not being just boring straight eights. some of the buildup sounds were pretty intresting to hear as well.
Chord Progression rocks, really enjoyed the synth texture you placed on. Nice ambient feel. The filter fade in was really sweet too.
The slowed down beat and stronger pads was real nice in the end.
-Your hi hats sound like a choppy snare sample, wtf?
-The thing that definetly sounds like a snare- sounds a bit weak, maybe layer it with a snare with a good decay and add a minor amount of reverb
-Oh goodness, I didn't like the saxaphone one bit. Both the melody (personal taste? or my I haven't aquired these advanced tastes yet) and the overall sound. I thought the small, lengthy pitch bends (natural element of the soundfont) that used seldomly were overly long, making the melopdy feel real awkward in the background. I know or think of jazz resolves around a lot of dissonance, but given the calm, smooth atmosphere (of the two chords that your presented first) I would like if you toned down the dissonance a bit. Way too many clangers in here for my personal taste (the latter half wasnt too bad). The note at 5:09ish killed it for me, as the previous notes sounded like you were going to roll into smooth, and then broke it. As for the sound, I just hate the timbres of alto saxophones. some of the high register notes were on the verge of ear piercing. Maybe it would be an interesting contrast to include some tenor saxaphone, after all it is a 7+ minute song.
-Work some ambience throughout the piece in a subtle manner, just some random sound FX and small intricate snippets that may help with the repetion and make the general progression more interesting
-Not a big deal since its DnB, but maybe work a distinguishable melodic theme somewhere during the section with the pads, as this mostly sounds like you were jamming in an improv session and just looped a few spliced breakbeat patterns throughout and two chords for the drop section.
-speaking of which- the bassline. I dont care, but since you pride yourself on avoiding simplicity, maybe spice up your bassline more both in a rhytmic and melodic sense, considering it was the same two sustained notes throughout.
Good song and sorry for being late to review, but here's my two cents. Definetly some awesome ideas and very easy to roll with. Though your knowledge is probably far superior than mine, and probably most everyone here.
intense as feck
wow, this is real game right here. Intense stuff right here. I can hear some sonic the hedgehog influences in the melody.
the 5/4 beat makes it sound really damn interesting (its that extra snare hit) i started writing something in 6/4 last night, but that doesnt count as odd right?
Synths made in sytrus? That detuned saw at the beginning was sick, real nice evil gritty sound. Love the ambient sound, some great FX and background elements that really makes the flow of the song a pleasure to listen to, plus a great thing to add into DnB. melodies and riffs were intense man great job.
I really dig the breakdown at 1:04, mmm, that melody is real nice, excellent preface to an intense bit, the beat was damn tight. in this section I would maybe add some strings that crescendo to really add to the intensity.
Glitch retriggering FX were damn nice, great "climax" part. well executed, rhythm slowly gets faster and rolls along faster.
Great job with automating the drums in the end dude, the last beat was real nice the cutoff boots and cuts flow nicely.
mmm also loops well.
Maybe to make the breaks more concise and powerful, layer the kick and snare with a sample and compress them. (I can hear them fine, but its something to consider)
clarity was a bit of a problem- the saw and the synth that carries the melody have this fuzz going throughout the entire track, it personally gets a bit annoying when used so much. I honestly dont know how to fix this, maybe experiment with a low pass filter to remove some of the fuzzing in parts. (modulating the bass filters would make for some sweeeet swells and whatnot too) maybe a more precise shape might help the case which can be remedied by turning down the "skew" and "sine shaper" controls.
the second half might be able to use a sharp, clear lead synth that plays long sustained notes.
all in all, awesome track WB!
Hey S3C thanks for the killer review. Yeah the saw was a sytrus.
The mix, the drums, two things I'm working hard to overcome. I've started remaking one of my pieces from a little while ago (Carbon Baby pt 1), and everything's coming together brilliantly and it's sounding amazing.
I've noticed the little extra effort going into effects and atmosphere can make a world of difference to a track, I just need to keep making music, and keep practicing and brushing up on those things.
Again, thanks for putting all this time and effort into this review, I appreciate it a lot.
pretty sweet man
yeah bro this one's real fresh,
i've had wobinidan on my favs for a while. my favorite track from is "Leaning Out" i believe it was called.
But man, some real interesting bits and combinations in here! You've really progressed in terms of production since I first heard your work (December I think)
I remember you like snoballandthmonyshot, while you've got a different style from him, you both use the same elements, combining acoustic sounds with eletronica styles, with some unique beats and interesting and odd structures.
really liked the intro with the experimental drumbeat and the fading in. That distorted bass was pretty nice with the nice filtered thingy in the background. Beats mesh real nicely with the guitar and vocals, executed quite well. i really dig your cymbal sequencing and usage.
piano does a nice job as the harmony accompany, nothing great, but it is a +
guitar chords will real crisp and had a nice grungy progression, sounded a bit like Nirvana (so do the lyrics, real enjoyable to listen to)
2:15 was one hell of an interesting turn of events, that cello and piano work together quite nicely, tho minimalistic. tambourines are also real fresh. strings are nice and lush and progress nicely in the background. Love the usage of synthetic sounds and organic sounds.
man the drums were real sick in the end, love the usage of heavy distortion on the percussion and the bitcrushing (you used that too?) on the kick was real nice. The guitar chord that wobidinidan ended felt good and the wobbling LFO on the synth was ace.....
crits for wobinidan:
at 1:03-1:04, the two guitars are off sync
during that same interlude section, the vocals standalone sound kinda empty and lackluster, throw some backing vocals in there or maybe a higher end synth or instrument to reflect the sound
crits for YOU bro:
-that fuzzy sawtooth wasnt all that interesting, I would spice it with more FX, experiment with a chorus or something, filters, automate the LFOs and what not...just in personal taste, it felt real awkward when the vocals and guitars came back in, maybe turn the fine pitch knobs back to 6 o'clock. (I personally would prefer that subtle swelling texture you used at 2:05ish in its place)
from my end, the first distorted kick near the end was a bit too overpowering on my end, maybe lower the dynamics a little or put a bit of compression on the bass parts
like the drums in the end, i personally would add a more powerful (gradual or instant) bitcrusher to the kick, maybe throw in some noise for the 8bit hi hat style
but sick tune man. one for the favs fo sho' favorite part was the drums i love tracks like this. what samples do you use for your drums? you still use FL right?
goddamn this is a beautiful review. i'll take my time to respond.
"I remember you like snoballandthmonyshot..." <-- he's my motherfucking favorite thank you for that.
"But man, some real interesting bits and combinations in here! You've really progressed in terms of production since I first heard your work (December I think)" - i've learnt a lot, been teaching myself music theory, and i dont settle for second best.
"man the drums were real sick in the end, love the usage of heavy distortion on the percussion and the bitcrushing (you used that too?)" - so much distorstion, compression, lo fi plug ins, vinyl plug ins and a bit of cpu anal rape.
"that fuzzy sawtooth wasnt all that interesting" - i knowwwww but my cpu was seriously crying i couldn't do everything that i wanted to and it wasn't my focus. i was actually very focused on the percussion.
"what samples do you use for your drums? you still use FL right?" - fl studio 8 is my king, my savoir, my lord. and the samples? just some acoustic(?) samples it doesn't really matter. learn to manipulate with effects to achieve the sound that you want, and the samples are 'just there'
Well, i kinda like this piece, some really interesting harmony ideas in here and it was pretty damn unpredictable, so I guess that's always good in terms of originality. but really, i personally wouldnt be able to remember any distinct melodical theme in this, and while the rhythm structure on the individual parts were catchy, the way they blend together makes the piece lack in that department. Really, i do love the outside artsy type of music but its hard to swalllow when it lacks direction...which up to the listeners interpretation. Feels too complex! haha
hah, i usually hate abrupt endings, but the part at 2:53 completely rocked, i love how you all of a sudden just introduced some of the dissonant chords in comparison to the light hearted and smooth and lush bits in the first part.
the choice of sounds was also very unique too....sounds NES era, yet it has a nice vibrance that sets it apart from sounding lo fi.
i might just not be sophisticated enough to like this (i like your earlier submissions much more). however this was definetly worth listening, very creative, reminds me a bit of jim ether's style, thanks for sharing :)
Thanks for your comments,
The truth is I'm always playing this one for friends and they want to kill me because they all hate it so much! hahaha
I think I like it because I programmed it based on pages of graph paper etc.. into Csound (which is probably why the sounds sound like they sound lol - I can get a bit retro sometimes)
I really like your comment heading 'Innovative?' haha very good question.
At the end of the day you'll not hear many pieces like this one (for good reason I suppose) I like it but I totally understand if it isn't everyones' cuppa.
Anyway thanks again and best wishes,
whether you used overused sytrus presets a not they set the mood quite well and go along with the imagery. the choice of arpeggios on the bells were put together quite nicely and the overall composition and instrumentation is quite relaxing and floaty (but a bit dragged out and boring)
My first beef would have to be when you broke the rhythm on the bells from the eighth notes suddenly into half notes, making it feel awkward as a transition. I would let the bells play for a bit longer, made making the melodic patterns ascend and slowly stop as you get the highest note of your arpeggios...or just keep the bells playing there parts and bring in the other set of bells and strings...that would make the intro a lot smoother.
but the sounds are real nice right now, nice and smooth. Great job with the atmosphere, real fluent progression and the feedback ambience lower and higher strings really do their job.
The melody on the tibetan bells was real nice, and the slow decaying synth that highlighted the notes backed it real nicely. 2:00 was a bit too long IMO for the melodic theme to come in it, and it didnt last long nor came back (I'll explain this more in depth later)
the transition on the bells felt a bit more flowing because the strings were still playing. The next chords don't feel like they're going anywhere with me. For one, there is not enough bass in the individual arpeggios, you could still keep the patterns the same I'd say but atleast put a lower note on the same synth at the start of every bar or whatever.
I did like how you speeded up the bells at the end, but it really felt out of place considering the over-minimal rhythmic scheme you had played throughout the previous few minutes. The chord progression at the time didn't sound very original or give off that nice vibe like your progressions did for me.
Atmospheres built and harmonized rather nicely in the end, good conclusion.
there is a lot of repetition in here and little variation- not really melodic wise is were it strikes as a problem, but you kept the same overall basic rhythm themes throughout and there is no percussion or lead melody to keep this department interesting. Really just experiment with different rhythms more, the bells were consecutive eighths throughout, and all the strings and other ambient textures were long, extended notes mostly throughout. Try chopping up some of the long notes up, divide them into two, maybe a chop up a whole note into a half and two quarters, still simple but it would keep things more interesting and add some intricacy, which this piece lacks (but not necessarily needs). which brings me to my next point about the melody.
there wasnt really a lead voicing in this entire track at all. just the short tibetan bells part which happened in the interlude section, and at that, they felt most like an introduction to a main melody theme rather then the theme its self with the sustained notes. (if you need a melody, the fading, glassy synth used in the second phrase might just work great for this piece, just give it a more intricate rhythm theme) although having a lead melody in ambient doesnt seem always like a necessity- but in this case you definetly need to change up the bells more since they kind of fill the void in the lead spot.
Also second part, 2:56ish to the end the bass completely dissapeared (I could say no pun intended if nemo was a bass fish, ha). An atmosphere, especially one that reflects the deep encompassing sea, IMO should definetly have big, bassy and warm texture to thicken out the sound.
so a good audio right here man, goes along with the aquatic ideas well, it just needs some more development and of course- some more original sounds. I recommend looking at tutorials on synthesis and start tweaking the sytrus presets and developing synths in 3xosc. definetly some more filtering, panning, variating reverb and different FX would make this a GREAT ambient piece.
first I havn't any idea about notes
I have never learned to read or write music notes
your try to explain me in that way are useless xD
2nd this is my 6th own song I've ever made and every time I learn more about FL studio I grade it up and make reworks of my songs
my experience to use this program is very low I spend not a lot of time in it
in the last 3 month I was effective 7 days in work with it and in this 7 days I expressed all ideas I submitted to newgrounds
3rd I make music for fun not commercial
I try to intercede a great mood to the listeners
and I'm a bit proud that I could built some song which is after 2 month in the best of the week and after that in the top 30
I thank newgrounds and the community for this honor =)
and I'm glad that I could rech that with my expressions as newbie-artist
thanks for your review Suspended-3rd-Chord
but if you want to improve that song you have to do it by yourself I havn't any idea how you imagine the "new" whole song .....
Perfection in musical form....
beautiful piece BD....no words or criticisms are needed to be given here. Masterful composition excelling in all aspects and touches the heart with every note. Sits excellently with the thematic elements of guilt, which can indeed be worse than a general depression, regret, bitterness, frustration, despair and even the hand of death itself. I'll stop with the poetic bullshit now. Since you were kind enough to leave a great review on one of my songs, i'll try and return the favor, but I will not be able to leave much advice (which can be recieved as a positive!) i also havent reviewed in ages so I might be a bit rusty, excuse moi.
Again, really coherent and flowing moods- I love the contrast of the major and minor feel (which makes the piano and strings carry an airy sadness, rather than the dark sadness that would emit from a mostly minor based progression), strictly keeping the chord progression in line to retain the moods and not straying to far into other emotions (which could ruin the overall tone of the song)- very carefully written. The ending has some underlying feel of hope covered in a thick layer of sad chords, which again, really ties in great with the themes you provided. Construction of the piano was great, nice minimal chord progression to start the piece, afterwards reflected by the melody line, gradually building the harmony and effectively gradually building the emotions. I really liked your left hand arpeggios and their movement, and my favorite part was when the high notes came in-isn't it wondrous how some of the most effective melodies can be carried out by a few simple notes? Lots of variating dynamics, making the piano playing sound quite realisitic (midi recorded?) and showing the emotion is clearly there. Anyways- what I'm trying to get at is you did an oustanding job at composing the parts and stringing them together, not too much was packed into certain parts, the simple rhythmical themes and transitions were really just flawlessly executed. While the last note works for most pieces, resolving back to the lower registers, and ending on that note just feels a bit cliche, and moreso dark, which is really not what this piece needs IMO, but moreso a higher voiced chord that leaves on a bit of a cliffhangerish note, such as a Cmin(7) chord without the fifth and give it a sonorous open voicing (C6-Bb6, Eb7 is what I had in mind)
As for the strings, simply great too. Simple rhythmic themes yet not entirely just sequenced of whole notes, which is a common "mistake" per se. The chords move great, some wonderful voicings that back the piano perfectly. Lots of color is added to the piece, yet it does it's job as an accompaniment with not taking too much of spotlight away from the piano. The high pitched violin sections were excellent too and came in at a suitable time.
I guess from here I really have no criticism on the composition it self- maybe look into developing the string parts more, not that the piece needs it, but voice the chords through the violin 1s, violin2s, violas, and cellos. (add a contrabass for the lower bass ranges although its not needed). Probably have the violin2, viola, and cello build the harmony in the background while the first violin section can carry the melody or countermelody of the piece and play certain motifs when needed. Again, just something to look into!
i almost wish this piece could be longer, but everything built in here does a fine job of serving its purpose. Also, glad that you only included a piano and strings, that's all this piece needs to tell about it's solemn themes.
I dont care, sure no one really does either- but mixing could be better maybe? Not sure if your strings are all in one channel, but if they are not, do a bit more panning to spread them out make the strings sound a bit more realisitic and spaced. I'd put more reverb on them too, so they're more in the background while the piano remains in the front. Some chorus FX might thicken up the sound some too and not sound to synthethic if done carefully
hold on out of characters
Wow...This is by far the longest review I have ever recieved. Thank you! I will edit this response to be longer once I have the time, but I don't have time at the moment. I have 30 reviews to respond to and want to save the best for last when I'm not rushed. Besides, I need to go practice the piano before I put it off too long. >_>
*Will be edited soon*
I've tried to review this several times now, the first time being when I read your rant. I've just been so amazed each time I start writing, that I've never been able to finish. To make a bad analogy, and not sure if this has ever happened to you, but it's kind of like one of those school assignments that you are excited about. Such as reading a good book, that's so good that you read past the required chapters and get immersed in the story, but you forget to answer the study questions. Or possibly writing an essay on a topic that you enjoy, so you research it to the point where you realize it's 2 AM, and you have no choice but to crank out a half ass essay where the content might be there, but there is no coherency. You kinda know what I mean? I've been so enthralled by this track that I've never been able to write a detailed review that discusses your score here in its entirety. it's also one of the cases when you're at a loss for words. well i'm gonna try and write my review now, and if it fails again, there's always notepad :D
For a start, I've not heard any piece on newgrounds that is so dynamic, alive, so incredibly thematic and complex. I have yet to hear anybody that can make a score that changes direction this much and interwine so many themes of epic proportions, and that's why in my opinion I think you're the best composer on NG (once again). This seems like a big trailer reel for an epic new Star Trek meets Disney movie, and explores the many "worlds" and "realms" that are featured in the track, all cleverly stringed together.
Some of my few criticisms may not go hand in hand with what you've visualized or planned for the individual parts of the track, since this piece is highly cinematic, there so many different possibilities for the turns and transitions!
Since there's so much stuff to talk about in here, this is the first time I will review through a chronological process:
Great harmony for the start, the chords do spark a feeling of wonder, and foreshadow a grand adventure to come. I like the lower textures with soft volumes and how the atmosphere fades in. My complaint here is this section felt a bit too short, the snares crescendo came in to soon, and I would have liked for that part to be longer. I see a spaceship slowly landing on the surface, and the astronauts come out of the ship way to soon. there was really no time to marvel at the scenery, so to speak. Mainly, I felt the melodic content suggest a longer section.
Great starting chord progression, sounds very militant(is that an adjective?), the horns are super powerful and boisterous. The woodwinds section was awesome, I love the lydian based melodies, and the graceful flute trills in the background, really helps compliment this vision of an outer space planet that I see. Also a nice preface to the next section.
Beautiful, I can just see a huge space station with ships flying across, and overall just a very busy environment. The fast glockenspiel and windchime phrases really help reinforce this image in my head with the majestic and slower brass and string progressions. I love the happy and excited sound throughout.
Brilliant! This motif adds a real nice touch to the widely moving side of this piece. I love how you placed that dissonant, somewhat sinister and playful melody on those pumping horns, as it suggests some danger within the environment, as if I an asteroid just nicks the wing of one of the spaceships while flying through space. With grand adventures, there is no guarantee of safety!
(Will continue review on my alternate account)
well, the riffs at 1:13 sound awfully similar to this track here:
I know that ronay uses mixcraft.
Now I'm NOT saying you didn't play this, if you in all honesty did and it's just a coincidence, my apologies.
But, from hearing your more recent Lala Acoustic track (btw, an undistorted guitar doesn't make it acoustic really, just a clean guitar setting) I just have a hard time you have the technical skills to play this, let alone get this recording quality from via your hardware or even be able to mix well XD
Whether you played it or not, I can't say it's my style but there's some cool riffage and structuring in here. THe bassline was pretty boring, but the chugging triplets in the second section were pretty damn sweet. Like the drums too, nice tom rolls, could have used a bit more viariation in the second half. But the mixing really kills the track, clipping in the second half, and WAAYY to many conflicts in the lower frequencies. I can't even hear a distinguishab;e bass kick.
But if this is your own recording- I'm interested to know about the equipment you use. What guitars, amps, and distortion pedals? Those are some pretty damn heavy distorted tones haha. And are the drums played or programmed? What samples would be using if they are programmed? EZDrummer?
Ah, I see you checked out some of my other stuff. Well, that LALA thing was just me when I was really bored and I didn't have my good equipment on hand. I just plugged in with the really old stuff I got my dad to dig up.
As for my equipment that I used for this, I used two old Yamaha amps, two phono plugs (I can't find those now, but I know atleast one of them is broken), some kind of double ended cords my dad gave me to rig the bass and guitar up to the sound card. I also used MX2 for all the major EQ'ing I had to do.
Unlike most songs I do, I actually took a week to play this and perfect it. The drums are pre-programmed loops, by the way. This was back when I didn't have a drum set.
definetly a great concept in here, I love the background textures. The aliensynth was a nice touch to harmonize with the voice, kind of reminds me of a spaceship launching into space.
Not sure what were the confines of this song, but it feels a bit short and rushed. The vocals came in too soon I believe you could have wrote a longer buildup messed around with the drums and melodies a bit more, instead of jumping right into the vocals. The short automation fade at 00:47ish felt a bit awkward, and not enough action felt like it took place for that effect to be necessary.
As for the vocals, great use of glitch FX and splicing the rhythms in the first part felt a bit off, but the spliced "go" sections was real nice, the patterns blended real nice with the faster beats, and I especially like the part where you retriggered all the channels!
As for the drum style, definetly enjoyed the synthetic marching style in the intro, then the technoish beats, into the more energetic moving drums.
Generally feels a bit unfinished, but still definetly worth the listen! very interesting :)
Haha, thanks! Just so you know, I only made the drums :P
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